Question Gen 2 - commentary and an observation

I was reading comments on stories, and I came across one that was a little bit disheartening because of how other Gen 2 authors (2 in specific) might interpret things. The comment goes something like:

"I really liked this because it was short, covered a short time period, was one POV, and was simple."

Okay, fair enough. But I think that's profoundly unfair to Astro and Nagrij for the following reason. In Gen 1, we had POV stories of ALL the major characters to set the stage for Whateley. In Gen 2, the first 2 stories had to set up ALL the major characters, start to establish long-term plot elements, and introduce a LOT of changes to the universe from Gen 1. I know for a fact that all of the authors would love to focus on one character, but certain things had to be established first. Yes, it's more simpler than stories 1 and 3, yes it's much shorter, and yes, it's only one POV. All single-POV stories are generally going to be like that. But it's a disservice to not acknowledge that such stories aren't possible without someone having set the stage.

Setting a stage like Whateley Gen 2 is a huge undertaking. Please be careful you don't accidentally dis Nagrij and Astro by gushing about WHY a single-POV story is so much better and overlook their hard work. (I volunteered for story 3 KNOWING that it was going to be a complicated mess and confusing and a lot of work, mostly so the other authors could focus on their own characters' POV tales. In Gen 2, I'll probably be a 'sometimes' contributor anyway because of Gen 1 writing so I hadn't planned on a ton of Laura stories.)

There. Got that off my chest.

I have a somewhat guilty confession to make. I've only really read the first of the Gen 2 stuff, then I walked away for a little bit. Not that it was bad! It's not! In part because my life was busy busy and has been this whole past year, but...

In part because I wanted there to be enough of the Gen 2 starting material so people could actually get to the point where we're starting to be able to read individual stories as well as the group stuff. I mean, in a way I didn't want to get into it until I could actually see what the intended setting and story WAS. Just one or two stories felt like it wouldn't let me actually appreciate the setting and the cast, so I thought I'd delay a bit and let things kind of work themselves out.

It did have a nice side effect of letting me concentrate on not-here RL things, and currently try to work a li'l more on my own work, but the real emphasis originally was on letting the ball get rolling before I decided to try and judge what was going on.

It's a disservice to the writers, and please don't think that I'm casting a no vote by not reading yet It's totally on my que. I just was intentionally delaying so I could "evaluate" and get a feel for the works as a whole when there was actually a body of work to work with. Everything I've read of it thus far has been spectacular though, so I don't think I'll have to wait too much longer.

elrodw wrote: I was reading comments on stories, and I came across one that was a little bit disheartening because of how other Gen 2 authors (2 in specific) might interpret things. The comment goes something like:

"I really liked this because it was short, covered a short time period, was one POV, and was simple."

Okay, fair enough. But I think that's profoundly unfair to Astro and Nagrij for the following reason. In Gen 1, we had POV stories of ALL the major characters to set the stage for Whateley. In Gen 2, the first 2 stories had to set up ALL the major characters, start to establish long-term plot elements, and introduce a LOT of changes to the universe from Gen 1. I know for a fact that all of the authors would love to focus on one character, but certain things had to be established first. Yes, it's more simpler than stories 1 and 3, yes it's much shorter, and yes, it's only one POV. All single-POV stories are generally going to be like that. But it's a disservice to not acknowledge that such stories aren't possible without someone having set the stage.

Setting a stage like Whateley Gen 2 is a huge undertaking. Please be careful you don't accidentally dis Nagrij and Astro by gushing about WHY a single-POV story is so much better and overlook their hard work. (I volunteered for story 3 KNOWING that it was going to be a complicated mess and confusing and a lot of work, mostly so the other authors could focus on their own characters' POV tales. In Gen 2, I'll probably be a 'sometimes' contributor anyway because of Gen 1 writing so I hadn't planned on a ton of Laura stories.)

There. Got that off my chest.

Elrod, while I can agree with your sentiment that people need to pay attention to what they're saying and how they're saying it when they comment on stories, I personally think you're being just a bit too critical for this particular case. The comment in question, copied and pasted directly (but bolded for emphasis), reads thus:

Man, it's been forever since I played THAT game...

(Crap...)

I may be a bit biased due to the author, but I think this has been my favorite Gen 2 installment so far... probably because it wasn't too long, only covered one evening, basically followed only one POV, or some combination thereof... not that the others stories are bad mind you, I just appreciate the simplicity of this one...

Very well done.

The reader specifically takes the time to point out that their opinion has some bias, and then also expressly states that the other stories aren't in any way inferior. It's just a matter of his own personal appreciation for simplicity. He's not bashing other stories or even comparing one to another, just providing his thoughts about why he particularly likes this one. It's clearly intended to be respectful and avoid offense as much as possible, which I like to see in story comments. So I think it's a bit harsh to call this one out like this.

elrodw wrote: In Gen 2, I'll probably be a 'sometimes' contributor anyway because of Gen 1 writing so I hadn't planned on a ton of Laura stories.)

Of course, Elrod.

I mean, why would you spend your time writing G2 stories just so you can be mean to Laura and a new set of characters?

Oh, wait...

NeoMagus wrote: Elrod, while I can agree with your sentiment that people need to pay attention to what they're saying and how they're saying it when they comment on stories, I personally think you're being just a bit too critical for this particular case.

It was NOT my intention to be harsh. I only intended to express my opinion that we mustn't forget the difficulties of establishing the Gen 2 uni and plots. To that end, I even paraphrased so as to NOT call attention to whom - the opinions I paraphrased could have been taken from the various commentary threads on stories 1 and 3, which were by necessity complicated, long, and full of lots of POV characters.

After what's happened in Gen 1, I absolutely do NOT want any Gen 2 author to feel their stories aren't appreciated, or for them to be even inadvertently made to feel dissed. I may come across as a little defensive of the authors, but I think there's plenty of cause.

I debated with myself for some time about whether or not to post to this thread, but I find I need to get something off my chest now...

I post comments the way I do and when I do (and I do try to leave a comment on each story that I read...) because the friend, author, and brother who introduced me to the WU expressed to me that posting just about anything is better than commenting nothing at all so that the authors can get some feedback... I originally did not comment on stories that I read because I know that I am not a very good critic and did not wish to hurt or offend anyone, but for my brother's sake, as well as the other authors who are his friends I decided I would always try to comment something... However, the last few times I have commented on a story, it has either been down-voted for some reason or as in this case caused tension on another thread, so if my commenting is only going to cause trouble, I may very well no longer comment... No, that is not out of spite, I just don't like hurting people... If I do continue to post however, I REFUSE to have to acknowledge "how good or important" every preceding work was just to give praise to the newest piece...

A few closing comments:

> To Astro and Nagrijj (since you were both mentioned specifically): If I offended either of you with my comment, I do sincerely apologize. It was not intentional. I think all of you guys do a great job. I just prefer certain writing styles and story concepts over others, and because of that may not always be able to express as easily how much I enjoy all of the stories.

> To Elrod (because this thread would not exist if I had not on some level offended you): I am sorry. The last thing I want is to hurt or offend any of you guys... The WU is one of very few literary universes I have come across that is not afraid to tackle some very heavy issues that I feel the world needs to acknowledge more often... You especially have impressed me in that regard, Elrod, with many of your Kayda stories... And I greatly respect that you wish to defend your fellow authors from undue harassment or dissing... If I were more knowledgeable and involved in the community, I would like to think I would do the same, but that just can't be right now...

Whew... I'm done now... Thank you all for your time....

ShockHawk wrote: I debated with myself for some time about whether or not to post to this thread, but I find I need to get something off my chest now...

I post comments the way I do and when I do (and I do try to leave a comment on each story that I read...) because the friend, author, and brother who introduced me to the WU expressed to me that posting just about anything is better than commenting nothing at all so that the authors can get some feedback... I originally did not comment on stories that I read because I know that I am not a very good critic and did not wish to hurt or offend anyone, but for my brother's sake, as well as the other authors who are his friends I decided I would always try to comment something... However, the last few times I have commented on a story, it has either been down-voted for some reason or as in this case caused tension on another thread, so if my commenting is only going to cause trouble, I may very well no longer comment... No, that is not out of spite, I just don't like hurting people... If I do continue to post however, I REFUSE to have to acknowledge "how good or important" every preceding work was just to give praise to the newest piece...

A few closing comments:

> To Astro and Nagrijj (since you were both mentioned specifically): If I offended either of you with my comment, I do sincerely apologize. It was not intentional. I think all of you guys do a great job. I just prefer certain writing styles and story concepts over others, and because of that may not always be able to express as easily how much I enjoy all of the stories.

> To Elrod (because this thread would not exist if I had not on some level offended you): I am sorry. The last thing I want is to hurt or offend any of you guys... The WU is one of very few literary universes I have come across that is not afraid to tackle some very heavy issues that I feel the world needs to acknowledge more often... You especially have impressed me in that regard, Elrod, with many of your Kayda stories... And I greatly respect that you wish to defend your fellow authors from undue harassment or dissing... If I were more knowledgeable and involved in the community, I would like to think I would do the same, but that just can't be right now...

Whew... I'm done now... Thank you all for your time....

No, I owe you an apology. For a number of non-Whateley events, I'm overreacting to a lot of stuff, including your post. I should have shut up and said nothing. Your comments about Neo's story were quite appropriate and had good feedback for him.

Apology accepted.

For what it's worth, though I don't know what all is going on, I hope things do get better for you...

The two of you are banned from ever using the interwebs again.